PipCop is biased

[Batchboy]

Originally Posted by PipCop

One of my future plans is to have a community robot programming effort. However, at this time, I don't think we have enough programmers on board to start that up. My long term goal is to find a robot that makes money, or create our own, and use that for income. Plain and simple. In the meanwhile ... this is about the best I can come up with to garner interest in the site. :)

hi Pipcop,
1ka has done a marvelous job with my Invisible_fx_Landscape programming, we just resolved our latest bug (time differential between tester and live) and it's flying. Community wise you could gather different ability folks, one whom has ability to "right-brain" see a pattern to trade and sees it regularly and has good hunches about using that ongoingly (i.e., an experienced trader with applied trading knowledge), others to engineer an auto trade plan, and still others to program, like Karl (1ka). I also put together in the Invis thread an 8-point plan of how to engineer an EA so that it will conform in back-test as it does live, etc, very necessary. (I recently sent it for EA requirements re: the 8 points in reply to an e-Ad about an EA for sale and all I got in reply is ";)".
Maybe make a forum sectioned off as "EA creating community".
I had to do the right-braining myself followed by the engineering, then Karl did the programming, been good so far, am in live testing phase.
You say: "My long term goal is to find a robot that makes money, or create our own, and use that for income.", yep, good goal, go toward something long-term viable EA that makes the money for this site site, exactly what I was contemplating as I was perusing this thread for first time.
I hope our EA project may be the first toward such endeavor.
jb

[consultantmark]

Originally Posted by PipCop

I hate to say it, but good news never seems to last. Well, at least not if you are in the business of delivering news!

I won't even try to pretend I know what will happen next, that's something I am not very good at. So, we'll just have to wait and see.

Pip, I think your business model here would be better served by accepting advertising from the people you are reviewing, but not acting as a reseller or distributor of those same products. Whether you are a man of integrity or not, the perception will change. If you wish to be primarily a review site, you should make sure that you are in no way compromised, or even perceived as compromised.

Further, if/when a product you are reselling crashes, you're going to get a disproportionate 'reward' for having promoted it, whereas with advertising you aren't in any way liable (in the perception department).

Between Adsense, Ads and member donations, you should have a viable model.

[PipCop]

While I understand where you are coming from, keep in mind that most sites have just hosting fees and perhaps some software development or licensing fees, and the rest of the revenue is pure profit. They can even let other people run the site. (I can't do that. I doubt anyone would volunteer to setup servers for me, setup VM 's, check when there are problems in the middle of the night, and so forth. Just today I have had to reboot one server 6 times due to heat issues, and I have to rebuild two other servers, plus I have another software project which needs to be done, and ... I am sure you get the idea!)

Most Forex robot review sites are plastered with affiliate links, made up data, back tests, and other low quality information. If this site were like my last site, then yes, you would be right - advertising revenue would be sufficient.

However, keep in mind that I have to do more than just run a site. I also have to run these robots - and I run more than anyone else does (that I know of). To that end, I have four servers with dedicated VPS server setups which I have purchased specifically to handle that job, shown here:

http://www.pipcop.com/forums/site-in...eb-2009-a.html

I also have operating systems to purchase, hardware upgrades, and so forth. I also have custom code created to do special things on the site, such as the Quick Stats, the Statement backups, and I am going to be publishing the MT4 logs soon, as well as custom statement charts. I also have plans to publish the actual MT4 chart windows. I want all data to be in the hands of the users so they can see EVERYTHING.

Please also keep in mind the hundreds of hours I spend maintaining, watching, and otherwise supporting the site. On average I spend 4-6 hours per day, 7 days a week, working on the site. My wife is going to shoot me pretty soon!

In addition, I occasionally have to purchase robots to test on the site (many are provided free, but not always). Those cost money. I've already purchased FAP Turbo and am working with another company to buy one in the next day or so, and have my eyes on a third. Why buy them? To show the world what they do ... or don't do.

Finally, if the robots pass my testing criteria, I fund a live brokerage account with real cash and let the robot wipe that out (usually). So far it looks like it may be a 100% failure rate . How much does that cost? Overall my goal is to test EVERY robot on a live account. Had I done that with $200 accounts from the very beginning, I would have required at least $9,000. Had I started the site doing multiple brokerages, then I would have needed more like $45,000. I don't know about you, but I don't have $9,000 to $45,000 floating around (on top of paying for all the stuff mentioned above) to do so.

All that information didn't cost you a penny. In fact, every member on this site can see all the information for free. You can purchase any software from a different site if you don't want to support my site. I'm not forcing anyone to donate or otherwise support the site.

What I think is so great about this site is that unlike most other sites, you can see REAL data, don't have to pay anything, have REAL conversations with other traders, and even (gasp) talk to the guy who runs the site and tell him he's doing it wrong. I challenge you to go to any other website and tell the owner that he's biased and see if the comments stay on the site.

To that end, I'm happy to put my own money into the site - and I have put far more of my own money into the site than I have generated on revenue - and if people want to help out that's great. if not, that's great too. I'm not running this site to make money, but it does take money to run the site. I am running this site because I want to see if there are any robots that actually make any money.

I just hope folks can find some useful information on the site which helps them invest their money smarter. I may not be perfect, the business model may not be perfect, but until I can find someone who wants to give me money to do everything the way I would like to ... I will do whatever I can to ensure the site is successful for the benefit of the community.

I do have some other plans to generate revenue without being a reseller of products, which would be great because being a reseller creates additional work for me and, as mentioned, makes me look biased. But for now ... this is the best that I can do.

Just remember ... past performance is not indicative of future results. Who knows how things will be next year? Maybe I'll make the site require $20 to join but have no ads. That would be a lot better for me. How would that be for you?

-James Fullerton

[consultantmark]

I appreciate the explanation. I think you are doing some great things here, and there is a value. Have you tried to find a volunteer to help with any aspect of it? Have you polled current members to see who would pay to have access to the forum? If someone isn't willing to pay to join, perhaps they're not likely to ever be an investor anyway.

If I bought a robot, I'd put a lot more at risk than $250, so sure, I would pay $20 to access a forum where someone with integrity was testing robots. I'd probably pay $20 a month as long as there was value.

I don't know if there is a way to create different membership levels for forum members, where free have certain rights, and then based on donation levels you get access to other material, but that might be an alternative. Keep the ads, I don't think anyone blames you for selling space; in fact, a paid membership site might garner higher ad rates.

I want to reiterate, I don't have a problem with you being an affiliate, because I think you're demonstrating well-enough your credibility through the daily management of the forum. I DO think the market as a whole will judge you differently for it though.

[PipCop]

Originally Posted by consultantmark

I appreciate the explanation. I think you are doing some great things here, and there is a value.

Thanks, I hope there is value too.

Originally Posted by consultantmark

Have you tried to find a volunteer to help with any aspect of it?

Not at this point . Right now it would probably take me longer to explain what needed to be done than to do it myself. The site is really new - only 6 months old - so right now most of what I am doing is trying to put together a solid infrastructure that will be easy to maintain in the long run. In addition, there are very few people who are qualified to do what I need done in terms of server management, and I would have to either buy additional hardware to grant them remote access, or they would have to be local and come to my house to work on them. Some things just don't make sense to have someone do anyway. Right now I am re-installing my Virtualization server operating system and tweaking the servers for the best performance. Unless I can find a server guy who has more experience than I do (about 10 years) and who will do it for free (good luck with that!) then there is no benefit to me having to manage someone else. Plus, then I do have to wait on someone else, and sometimes I can't wait. I have monitoring software which checks the robots every 15 minutes, and if one isn't working I can't wait a few hours for someone to "get around to it." Letting a robot stall for more than 15 minutes is something that could materially affect the outcome of the test.

Originally Posted by consultantmark

Have you polled current members to see who would pay to have access to the forum? If someone isn't willing to pay to join, perhaps they're not likely to ever be an investor anyway.

I was just joking about that. I would never charge members to join my site. Never. It simply won't happen. I would like to provide the best information to the people who want to take the time to learn about it. Why should I restrict that just to people who can pay? That feels greedy and unfair to me. Sure, there are sites that do that, and yes it does have it's benefits, but I've always been the guy who pays my bills but then doesn't have a lot left over to spend, never can get ahead, and so forth. Heck, I have only been on vacation ONCE in my life, and when I came back I was laid off from my job. I want to give back to people who are in my shoes - average people who have life happen to them.

Originally Posted by consultantmark

If I bought a robot, I'd put a lot more at risk than $250, so sure, I would pay $20 to access a forum where someone with integrity was testing robots. I'd probably pay $20 a month as long as there was value.

I used to think that way. Now, with all these reviews, there is no WAY that I would put more than $250 on a robot at first. If it proved itself for 6 months, then I would consider adding more funds. Besides, if a robot can't handle itself with mini or micro lots and $250, why would I want to take $20 from members to put into a (hypothetical) $2000 acount just to lose it. That doesn't make any sense to me. The dollar amount in the account doesn't matter. The performance of the robot does.

Originally Posted by consultantmark

I don't know if there is a way to create different membership levels for forum members, where free have certain rights, and then based on donation levels you get access to other material, but that might be an alternative.

Yes. However, in my experience, that is a good way to kill off the site. While donating members do get some extra benefits, they are not so great that it would make the site useless or semi-functional to all the other members. I have no desire to cripple my site as a way to nickle-and-dime members to pay me. My goal is to make a GREAT site, and if it's great, people will voluntarily give back. If my site sucks, they'll go elsewhere. The success of my site, in my opinion, is directly related to the quality of content, ease of use, and fairness applied to members. It's like that airline that is thinking about charging passengers to use the toilet. (Have you heard about that in the news? Go check it out if not.) Why in the WORLD would they do that. Ideas like that make me want to AVOID them.

Originally Posted by consultantmark

Keep the ads, I don't think anyone blames you for selling space; in fact, a paid membership site might garner higher ad rates.

I am more likely to "turn off" ads for donating members, which is something I have done with great success in the past. However, again, it's not such a compelling reason to donate, it's just a nice "little" bonus. It in no way affects the site. Besides, people can use ad blocking software. Heck, I use it!

Originally Posted by consultantmark

I want to reiterate, I don't have a problem with you being an affiliate, because I think you're demonstrating well-enough your credibility through the daily management of the forum. I DO think the market as a whole will judge you differently for it though.

I am sure they will. And that's fine. I just hope they do what I do - judge me in the context of my competition. Anyone who is here and is complaining ... isn't on another site, and there is probably a reason - my site is just a little BETTER!

-James